Generations in Session

From Boardroom Boss To Present Partner: Navigating Family Dynamics And Leadership

• Path Positive • Season 1 • Episode 7

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Ever notice how your most effective work voice can land like a lecture at home? We dig into the friction between leadership in the office and connection in the kitchen, and how to switch roles without losing yourself—or your relationships. From the first minutes after you park the car to the conversations over dinner, we map out simple, humane ways to reset your brain and your tone so your loved ones get presence, not leftovers.

We share practical rituals that make the shift stick: a quick change of clothes to cue a new role, a 15 to 20 minute walk to drain stress, and a planned snack to avoid “hangry” conflicts. Then we step into family business life, where the lines blur even more. When parents, adult children, and partners work together under one roof, logistics matter: who cooks, who cleans, and how to pay for help if time is scarce. We set time limits for shop talk, carve out private spaces, and build rules of engagement that protect affection while the business grows.

Communication sits at the core. We break down how to address feeling “talked down to” without blame, why true I-statements are rare, and how memory distorts conflict. Passion is a gift when contained and a hazard when unchecked; the person with the strongest fire must learn to pause first. At work, treat family with the baseline respect you’d give any colleague, even if last night’s argument is unresolved. Align around outcomes rather than methods—agree on the destination and allow multiple routes.

Looking ahead, we explore succession planning and sibling dynamics. Start early, define roles and hours, and keep expectations explicit as life changes. The third generation fails most often not from lack of love, but from unspoken assumptions and brittle foundations. The fix is simple, not easy: continuous communication, clear goals, and emotional ownership. If this conversation helped, follow the show, share it with someone in a family business, and leave a review telling us your best after-work reset ritual.

The conversations in this podcast are for informational and educational purposes only. While we explore clinical topics, nothing shared here should be taken as medical or therapeutic advice or used as a substitute for professional mental health care. Everyone’s journey is unique—if you’re struggling, we encourage you to reach out to a qualified therapist or healthcare provider.

If you’d like more personalized support or qualified therapy, you can connect with us at Path Positive.

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to episode 7, Generations in Session.

SPEAKER_02:

A Path Positive podcast. Today we're going to be talking about family dynamics and leadership. So how we lead when we're at home, how home can affect work and the things that we're able to do about that.

SPEAKER_00:

And how our children see us in switching hats. Is it hard to be a CEO in the boardroom and a wife in the kitchen?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Caitlin, would you like to kick us off?

SPEAKER_02:

Would I like to kick us off? Uh no, I would not, but I will. Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

That's good. That's good.

SPEAKER_02:

So when I think of the the combination of family dynamics and leadership, one of the first places I like to look at is at home. So when we're not in the environment where we're being paid to be a leader or just being a leader at work. And moving into a place at home where it's a bit more equality between you and your partner.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And navigating the shifts in dynamic. Yeah. So, you know, the first thing that comes to mind is obviously that transition immediately right when you get home between work and home.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, I know for some clients, it can be a challenging period to disconnect from the day at work and dive into home. And it often doesn't happen right when you walk in the door, but instead 15, 20, even 30 minutes later, depending on when you get home.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it can also be how we're, sorry, Caelan, how we like the transit home, like there's a ton of things that can happen. You know, um, let's talk about having young children at home, being at work all day, and you have a partner who's staying at home, be it husband or wife, who's the stay at home. The partner walks in, and the person who's been at home all day, all they want to do is hand off the child. And the person coming in from work wants to take some time. So there's definitely some family dynamics that happen. A common theme that I all always hear from clients is that they're really good at communication at work, really good at their job, really good at leading, and then they get home, and the qualities that they relied on at work don't transfer in the same way at home.

SPEAKER_02:

So essentially what you're saying is they as they take on these different hats, they adopt different characteristics about themselves.

SPEAKER_00:

So I can give you a couple of specific examples. Maybe that will help. So for my teachers out there who are married to non-teachers, when they get home, their partner feels like they're being taught instead of being talked to. Or for fellow psychotherapists or psychologists, right? Um, it can be as simple as don't shrink me or don't talk to me in that in that kind of way. Um it is an interesting dynamic because people assume intent, whereas most of the time, people, when you spend 80% of your day talking in a certain pattern, it seems to only make sense that you're going to carry that and bring that home. So it isn't so much about them putting on a teacher's hat or a doctor's hat or a leader's hat, it's about the hat being on there for a long period of time and us being more comfortable with how we speak. Does that clear it up?

SPEAKER_02:

I think so.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. So is there anything you would say to a partner who feels like they're being parented or being talked down to or being um an employee as opposed to a partner?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, the first step that we kind of like to start with is let's take a look back. You know, first things first, let's take a breath and bring ourselves back and look at the facts that we have available to us. So the first step is, you know, I feel like I'm being talked down to. Okay, so what's going on? In what ways are they talking down to you right now? So starting with checking in and looking and identifying, I feel like this is a period when they're talking down to me and reviewing what they're actually saying with their words. So not the meaning that we're putting on to them, but the actual words that the person is saying and trying to identify what is the difference between what is being said and what I am hearing. You know, how do you want to approach this in conversation? Because one of the things that we like to to bring up, I think we've brought it probably a couple times, is well, thoughts and looking at it are great, but it doesn't mean anything until we put it into action. So if you feel like somebody is talking down to you, you can have a conversation with them.

SPEAKER_00:

Not a you're talking down to me, what's wrong with you? Yes. But a listen, I recognize your intent is not to. I'm trying to hear what it is you have to say. Could you say it slightly different? Or am I tired? Am I hungry? Am I overwhelmed? Is this a good time for me to be an active listener? Because that's a different role. If you want to be a speaker, then you need to make sure your partner is in a place where they can listen. But if you're asking a question, then your job is to listen at that point, not to speak. So it's important that we make sure we are well aligned in order to do that. So a message now to our leaders when we walk home, and let's say we forget to take our leadership hat off. What are some transitions that you've given your clients when they're walking in the door to transition from being the boss to being a partner to being a parent?

SPEAKER_02:

Honestly, one of the ones that I I like to recommend is genuinely a shift of clothing. I know for me and for some other people, it's that transition that you've walked in the door, you're sort of shedding your work skin and coming home into whatever it is. And that obviously doesn't have to mean that you have to get right into pajamas or anything, but even having an outfit where it's okay, I'm coming home from work, I'm just gonna wear it for a couple hours, a couple nights this week. And just it's another way to signal, hey, things are disconnecting from me, or so I'm I'm done work and I can decompress and switch hats.

SPEAKER_00:

I I also think if you've had an exceptionally tough day, recognizing and acknowledging that you need a little bit more space. So calling your partner and putting him in the loop. Hey, hun, I've had a really tough day today. You're gonna notice I'm gonna come home, I'm gonna park the car, I'm going to take a 15 or 20 minute walk around the block right away in my suit, and I'll come back in when that's done. So we don't even walk into the house with the negative feelings with us. So we'll work on shedding that. I always recommend that people carry, oh, that's a tough word to say, carry a pair of running shoes in the trunk of their car so that when they get home and it's been a hard day, they can throw shoes on and go for a quick walk. Now, I don't know how amenable your partner will be to that if they've got a crying baby, but it's important to recognize that in order to shift, you need to ask the question.

SPEAKER_02:

So, you know, in that part, it's sort of a communication is key. Yeah. Identifying I'm not in the right headspace right now, and I want to be when I walk in the door. So the best way for that is, you know, I'm gonna need a separation. So a quick walk. I'm gonna come in the door with much better energy than I would straight out of the car. And then we're gonna go ahead and we're gonna figure out how we switch. You know, there are definitely uh, I'm sure times when calling and going, hey, you know, I'm gonna need a couple extra minutes today might not always be as appreciated, especially when things are going on. But in those moments, it's uh it's a trade-off. You know, I need this right now. When I come in, you take that time that you need. And this way I can bring my best self to the table, and so can you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And I mean, in that kind of situation, if you do the 15 or 20-minute walk, whatever the number is you need, it has to be at least 15 right minutes to change the brain 10-minute rule. Um, so just a little bit longer, you're still gonna be in your suit with the little one. So coming in, taking off your suit, jacket, or if you're in a skirt and heels, then the heels come off, and we grab the little one and bring them upstairs and uh get changed uh with them around. Not ideal, but maybe a good balance between between both parties and both partners. Something else I also encourage people to do is pack a snack. So on your way home, when you're coming home from the office, you've got food there, so you can have a snack. And if you've had a snack and gone for a walk and sat in the car to get home, you've hit the three bases, right? You've rested, you've moved, you've eaten, which is uh a really great triad for us from our emotional parachute perspective and point of view. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So part of taking our hat off is acknowledging where we're at and how we're feeling. Now I thought we could spend a few minutes talking about home businesses. So being in business in a family-run business, and how do we I get this question asked a lot when I work with my family businesses, and now I'm in one. Um so my our husband, my husband, Kaelin's dad, has a family business that uh we run as well. And then Kaelin and I are in a family business. Now our situation is slightly different because um my young man over there has bought his own place so Kalen can go home when his mom and dad are driving him crazy, which you know never happens. And uh yeah, you see that smile. And we get separation that way, whereas our youngest Jaden is still in our house. So um talking about separation. Do you have any suggestions you give? And then we can go ahead and get into some that I may have.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, you know, one of the first things I think even before I get into suggestions is yeah, I want to rewind a little to a period where where we did live together, where we were living together and in family business.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And I think it's important to recognize that there are times when it can be very challenging to be in a family business.

SPEAKER_00:

I need to say this was more my husband than myself.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Okay, sure. But regardless.

SPEAKER_00:

It is hard. It's hard. I'm just being silly.

SPEAKER_02:

It it can be very tough. And that doesn't mean you don't hold love for the person. Oh, yeah. Because there's the and, you know, I can love you and also be very unhappy with you at the same time.

SPEAKER_00:

And trying to figure out how to kill you and get away with it.

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly. Yeah, and the dynamics of navigating the whole situation change, you know. So there are differences for family businesses where you do or do not have separation. So, regardless of that, there are definitely some things that you can do, even in a smaller space, trying to carve out areas for separation from one another is important. So, if that means your separation time is going out and going for a walk or hiking or trying to separate into different areas or spaces as they're needed, trying to find a way to build in that balance. Because it can be really challenging to go from working and being in a working relationship with someone all day, and then coming home and being in that relationship, and also having the interplay of it's still being family at work and it's still being work at home.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and and being really important. I will say that uh another dynamic which comes into play sometimes when you have two generations living together is bringing in the partners. So, in our situation, um, Kaelin's partner, Ryan, works with Dave full-time. So we also had that dynamic of everyone being together all the time. Um, and I think for the most part, it it works out, but there definitely are challenges and times where it is really hard and acknowledging it's hard and setting up really good rules before you begin. So which day is are people going to be so as crazy as it sounds? Which days are people going to be doing meals? Which days are people going to be cooking at home? So just the function of living at home. Traditionally, in a business environment, traditionally, it is the parents who are in charge uh at work, and sometimes, so in our case specifically, we were moving through our son's house, so we're moving through Kaelin and Ryan's home. So it was their home, which probably added a different dynamic because when you guys lived in our home, it wasn't the same kind of dynamic from my perspective.

SPEAKER_02:

It was it was definitely different. I think part of it would be space, but part of it is also like that shift. It can it's weird when things start to mix, when all of a sudden it's not okay, you know, leader, leader at home, sort of pumpkin eater.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

But that that shift in dynamic and realizing, oh my gosh, all these different things are now coming together. Yeah. And it's hard to determine the rules of engagement when you're trying to balance, like, yes, this is my house, but this is also my parent, this is also my boss, and someone that I spend a lot of time with and obviously care about. It it is interesting. So, you know, in light of all of this dynamic, what recommendations do you think you would have for people in family business?

SPEAKER_00:

So, family business, so let's let's do this specific where the parents need to move through a child's house and the parents are in charge. Before the parents move in, if we were to ever do that again, and we will, um, when we move to our new property, the kids will move through our house while they're building their next place. The rules are going to be pretty simple. So, who's gonna do dinner which nights? Who's gonna clean up which nights? And really, um, if nobody can clean up and you are in a position where you can put money in a kitty, then everyone contributes to the cleaning person who comes in once a week. But I do really think that that's important. I also think having your own living space, like you said, carved out. When we get together now, so when the kids come over for Sunday dinners or different meals, which is really nice, we automatically revert back to shop talk. And I think it's because we're in an interesting place, right? Where we're growing in both areas, so it's exciting to talk about, but really important to put a time limit on how long you talk about it. So buying, I've given this homework before, go buy a timer from the dollar store. Yep, Kaelin, I said the dollar store. That is a five-minute, I know, right? Crazy five-minute timer or 15-minute, or um, they sometimes have like 25-minute timers. 25 might be too long at a meal, I'm not going to lie, where everyone sits down and decides how long you're going to talk about what's happening at work, what you're looking forward to, where you're going. And then once the timer goes, you switch and talk about the rest of your life. I do think for most families, sitting around and having a family meal is talking about what you did for your day. So when the kids are smaller, it's always like, hey guys, what did you do? So with you guys, it'd be like, What'd you learn today at school? Traditionally, I got nothing. Nothing. Yeah, that was the answer. So I mean, you don't go very far when they learn nothing at school. Um, tell me something you had fun with, something you enjoyed. And then mom and dad talk about their days. So my days were not very exciting because there's not much you could talk about from a psychotherapy perspective. Hey, I had like five people walk in. I had seven people today, um, would be about my conversations uh around the table. And then dad would talk about his business and what was going on there. So I think that that is very common to do around a kitchen. The complexity is that it everyone's got something different to talk about. Right? When it's a family business, it's always the same thing. So it's important to have other things besides the business to focus on.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you know, even I think this has so many parallels back to boundaries. You know, it is sitting and setting up the rules of engagement. So, you know, I wouldn't never tell anyone who's close or, you know, has a fairly good relationship with their family to not go into a family business. Oh no. I wouldn't say that at all. But I would say set up and have the conversation beforehand. Communication is gonna be really important, not only at the beginning, but through the whole process. So making sure that you are communicating and letting people know, hey, this is what I think I'm going to need. And having that open and honest dialogue is gonna be one of those other pieces that I would say is important in a family business dynamic.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. And you know, so money and uh family rarely mixes unless you do it properly. So it is setting expectations and boundaries right out of the gate on what everyone can expect. And you know, so sometimes from a parent perspective, I've definitely heard frustration from the younger generation to the older generation, because the older generation maybe has a strong feeling that they know what it is they want to do and they don't listen as well as they should to the younger generation, and vice versa. The younger generation is not listening as well to the older generation. And the fundamental truths is that both of those generations have different strengths and balanced together, they bring a better audience, a better way to reach people, a better rounded approach. What do you think about that, Kaelin?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I mean, there are definitely differences, but you're right, both bring something important to the table. You know, we learn so much from our parents, and it's funny because we can sometimes be similar to them or in other ways very dissimilar. And obviously that's how generations are somewhat formed and how those relationships come, but it is definitely an interesting dynamic to when you talk to family members, extended family members, whether it's grandparents or parents or even cousins, there can definitely be large differences and it's interesting.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. You know, um, something else with family that makes it different traditionally from a work environment is the emotional role that emotions have in family. We are connected uh to the people around us because we we love them most of the time. Um and sometimes. And you know, we have a history which is interesting from a memories perspective. So memories are these things that we hold on to and inform ourselves, but they are the least precise thing about us. So they are an impression of something that happens. If you were to sit around, so my brother, your uncle and I were out for dinner with friends of ours, Jeannie and Dave, and Jeannie was asking questions about, hey, Liz, tell me about your upbringing and your parents. And Chris and I were giving completely different answers. Not because we didn't grow up in different families, but because we remember it differently, because we're different people and we had different perspectives in the moment. And I think that that is something that is really true. I think you and Jaden would probably remember things differently. I think probably Ryan and his siblings as well.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. You know, memory is for the amount of trust we like to give it. Yeah, it's completely unreliable. It is, and you know, one of those things is every time you remember back to something, you're changing the way you remember it with how you're feeling right now, and it becomes this amalgamation of what kind of happened, what you felt happened, and how you're feeling right now.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, a memory is an imprint in our feelings, and feelings are our our truth, but not the truth. But we argue and hold on to them and hold stuff that does not serve us. So I think it's important to recognize and understand who you're working with. And although you might be frustrated by the process of talking with your parents, finding out maybe why they're so resistant to the change is important. If you want someone to listen to you, it is always your job to listen first. So ask the questions and get involved that way. I feel like you and I have a pretty good balance with that. The things that you want to lead in, I pretty much give you the lead on. Is that true?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, sure. When you're not stampeding over the conversation. Yes, I think our dynamic is fine. I probably wouldn't choose to do a podcast with someone who I thought was too much of a character, that's for sure. Just interesting enough to enjoy a conversation with.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I wouldn't uh choose to do podcasts because I wouldn't know how to. So I mean, I can talk, and uh, but that is that is about it. And it's a it's a good balance there. Not to say that there aren't going to be times that we hit, but something we did when we first started business was we sat down and discussed what the income was going to look like, how it was going to get split, how the bills were going to get done. And we continue, continue to do that, and it is continuing to evolve now. With um, so our business is small right now. Your dad's business is a little bigger, so it's not just family that's involved, it's family and employees. Do you think that that adds another dynamic?

SPEAKER_02:

I do, but I I think it's maybe in light of that, maybe it's worth shifting the perspective a little. So not perfect, not our time at home, but home into work.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, let's do it.

SPEAKER_02:

That sort of family dynamic. So one of the things that we sort of talk about when it comes to work is oh, try and leave home at the door is one of those things that sort of comes out. You know, you're here to work, we're not here to listen to how your day was last night.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, we are, but most people aren't.

SPEAKER_02:

But you know, it's oh man, what am I thinking now?

SPEAKER_00:

Sorry, probably about not bringing your emotions into work. So if you've had an accept, if you leave and you've had an argument with your wife, you don't come in and bite your coworker's head off.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it it is something like that. Like the very much of, you know, when you are bringing in an emotion, it's important to be cognizant that that emotion is there and trying to adapt and still act in a way that we'll be proud of, regardless of how we're feeling. But at the same time, the other piece of it that I wanted to bring in is be aware that there are things going on in other people's lives, even within a family business, whether it's an employee or a family member. Yeah, there are sometimes things going on that you are not privy to.

SPEAKER_00:

No.

SPEAKER_02:

And because of that, we have to remember to give people the benefit of the doubt that we would want them to give us in a moment of a tough time.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. It's a tough balance too, right? To ask someone if they're okay in a work environment. It's not the way you should ask. Hey, what's wrong with you? It is just more, hey, I've noticed that um things don't feel the same with us right now. So I statements are tough to get right. As soon as you say I you, you are no longer in an I statement. You are you've switched into the other land. And it's hard. I will say it's very hard to navigate. Even myself, sometimes I catch myself in the middle of a sentence and I'm like, dang it, I don't know how to finish this.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm no longer saying yeah, I feel this way. It's I feel that you're a big asshole right now, and I'm not happy with your behavior. That would not be a good example of an ice.

SPEAKER_00:

That is a very bad example. Um, you know, I'm feeling attacked or I'm trying to listen, but it's hard at that volume. I am not sure what's happening, but I'm here as a friend. I'm not sure what's going on. If you want to talk, I can try and listen. I'm not sure what's happening. Maybe you want to go talk to the boss so that you can give good direction with kindness, but kindness is key. So it's important to be kind when you're talking about feelings. And something we've said in the podcast previously, and something I will definitely repeat, it is not our job to judge other people's emotions. And the truth is, is we judge we are judging the crap out of those ourselves. I shouldn't be feeling this way. I'm angry, I'm feeling this way. I'm frustrated, I'm feeling this way. And as soon as someone points out something that you already believe to be true. It is bomb. Bomb. Bomb. Right? An emotional bomb. You want to really upset someone? Try and tell them how they feel.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it is very effective. Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_00:

It is an effective fighting rule. So when you're in the office, and let's say that um, well, let's use our family. You were upset with your brother or your dad, and you go in angry at them, and you're trying to navigate uh other people, how would you leave that at the door?

SPEAKER_02:

You can definitely be tough to leave, especially when there's an argument that happens before or pretty recently to work going on, going in and and trying to switch that situation. Honestly, a lot of it I find is the trying to focus on this work portion. So it's it's not saying necessarily that you have to immediately forgive them, however, you do have to treat them respectfully in this situation. So this is at this point a colleague, and you can be frustrated and upset with a colleague, but if this were a colleague that wasn't a family member, how would you treat them? And use that as a guide for when you are talking to a family member. Yes, there are differences, but we still owe them the same respect we owe anybody else.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, we have a tendency to not do that, but we definitely do. I will say one thing, I think that um your dad and our family does particularly well is we don't let arguments lie. So we're gonna have a conversation, we're gonna deal with it before we get back into the office and and talk it out. So, really honestly, with all of the years we've been doing this, I can't think of a time where it got brought into work. I feel like we deal with it outside of work, and that would ultimately be the answer. Try and deal with it outside of work, have a respectful conversation where you're prepared to listen. You're going to acknowledge the mistakes that you've made because at the end of the day, no one wants to hurt their children. It is not, it is not our intent. We don't want to be little or make them feel less than. So then acknowledging that they were hurt and recognizing that that wasn't the intent, okay, is a starting point and moving past and figuring out how to talk better and talk through it. So Kaylin will tell you in our house, whenever our my children apologized, I'm sorry, it'd be like, okay, I hear that. What will you do differently the next time? So it wasn't just a sorry and we were done, but a sorry and you know, I acknowledge I was tired, and next time I'm gonna try and do this instead. Do you remember that?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, next time I'm gonna try and count a three before I bite you. Thanks, Jaden.

SPEAKER_00:

Appreciate that definitely something we totally.

SPEAKER_02:

Counter three, it didn't work.

SPEAKER_00:

That's right. That that is a hundred percent correct. And we we totally worked through that. Where yeah, his little brother definitely bit him at certain points. And if Jaden was in here, he'd say he deserved it. So it was he would, he would, so definitely, but as grown adults, I'm proud to report my boys no longer bite each other.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. I hope not, I definitely hope not.

SPEAKER_00:

So, you know, we're talking about cleaner lines, and there sometimes are really not clean lines at work because people who are passionate about what they do, passion is one of those emotions that is a fire emotion. And fire, if you think about what it does, when it is contained, it heats, it warms, but when it is out of control, it decimates and destroys. And people who are passionate know they are. Uh, you can tell by talking to them, they've got a different voice, they draw people to them because they've got that right kind of energy. And when they go, they go.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you can tell it's the blowing the top off the tea kettle.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

The passion, you're right, passion can overflow beyond what it is. It is a fuel, but like any fuel, it it can go too far.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it definitely. So the person who is passionate, it is their responsibility to shut their mouth before, honestly, before they say something they shouldn't. And you memory, member, is something we make in our own head. And when someone says something that inadvertently hurts you, we can rewrite it in our brain and actually hear different words that they're saying and repeat that language over and over and over again. It's really important from a trait emotional intelligence perspective that when you are doing that, you stop doing that. If you don't want to sit down and have the conversation with the person, if you don't want to ask them why they said what they said, and if you're not willing to listen to what they're telling you their intent was, then the only thing you can do is damage the relationship. I am the expert on my emotions, you are the expert on yours, and when I tell you I didn't mean to hurt you, and you tell me I'm wrong, there's no place to go from that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you can't see inside someone else. You can't tell that they were, you know, it's not you know, I really didn't mean that. That's not how I I meant it to come across. It's not your place to go. No, you definitely meant that. I can tell you were trying to hurt me. Yeah. As you know, we've said in the past, but the heroes and the villains of our own head, it is not that. It's two people having a conversation and sometimes hearing different things. And when we go to address that, it's important to make sure we're in a place that we can hear because you know communication is key. Key.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Something else um I like to do in family businesses is align people around goals. So what are the goals? What are we aiming for? And then recognize that there are many different paths to hit the goal. So if you think about driving from here to Calgary, there are probably multiple ways we can get there. Not even driving, just getting from here to Calgary. We can fly, we can drive, we can take a train, we can, I don't know, maybe there's an air balloon we could do, horseback. I mean, I wouldn't recommend it, uh, cycling, running. And so there are definitely quicker ways to get there. But if the goal is Calgary, then being more free with how people get there. So Calgary in five months. So there's a ton of ways that you could do that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. You know, with work-related things for sure, a lot of the time it's not about making someone conform to your way of doing something, it's letting someone get to the end goal. And sure, maybe there's steps along the way that have to be completed, but those are individual goals, and people can go about them in different ways. So finding different ways to get to that goal is allowing the individuality of each person. You know, maybe you'll learn something new and beneficial from that person. They might bring a different perspective and try things in a different way that you, no matter how many times you would think about it, probably would have never thought of.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Something else I'd like to touch on is uh generational businesses. So being the second generation and being siblings in a business. So, you know, three kids, four kids, two kids, and having a different uh view of what each person does and a different perspective and getting caught up in different directions. So, what would you recommend prior to succession? So the next generation coming in.

SPEAKER_02:

I definitely think it's similar to starting a family business, but it's the communication and the ground rules. You know, if two or more are going to be taking over the business, or even if it's one taking over the business, setting it all out and deciding what is that going to look like? What are the roles that we're looking to hold here? And what are our expectations that we have for this succession? And you know, there may be times when the succession comes on maybe quicker than we expected, which is difficult to manage, but it's still important to focus on laying out those ground rules early on in the beginning and checking in throughout. What we really don't want to have happen is you don't want anything to sit and fester.

SPEAKER_01:

No.

SPEAKER_02:

Which sometimes happens not only in family businesses, but relationships, friendships. And it's important when things are coming up to bring them to the other person's attention. You know, we've got to give them the benefit of the doubt that they're going to listen to what we have to say, and together we're going to come to a solution. Yeah. You know, deciding in our head beforehand that, hey, this person isn't going to respond in the way I want to isn't going to make any change.

SPEAKER_00:

No, and really it's going to amp you up to fight because you're going to mishear what's coming out and you're going to come out swinging. Going back to your earlier point about change, if you think about an on-ramp on the 401, there is a really good shoulder that gives you a lot of time to get up to 100 kilometers an hour.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, 40, let's be honest.

SPEAKER_00:

So a regular highway, which allows you to move. There is traditionally a really good shoulder, which allows you to speed up and get going. The longer that is, the more effective and the easier it is to get over. If there's construction in the lane shorter, it's harder to get up to speed and move over. So think about change as that. The more runway you give, the more the smoother their transition, the shorter the runway, the harder to move. Succession planning should almost start within the first couple of years of someone starting a business so that they know what's happening and there's a lot of runway. And I know that sounds crazy, but it will give you a lot of time. I think with uh children who are inheriting a business, having very specific job roles is going to be really important and an understanding of what the hours are going to look like, the time commitment, what it's going to look like when those children have children and their children come in. So, what are our expectations here? And having those conversations ahead of time is important. Do you know which generation traditionally fails in a family business? Isn't it the third one? It is the third. Yeah, it's the third because we rot a little bit of the foundation because we don't pour it with the same kind of care. And then there is a lot of assumptions that happen, and there isn't the same kind of communication and work. There are some arguments that happen with siblings that blow up not only a family business, but also blow up a home. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is sad and and hard to come back from. So it's important to be open and honest and have really good communications. You'll remember from our burnout um podcast, we talked about the fact that we start writing in our head that no one is doing anything to help, right? No one's doing anything to help. I'm doing everything by myself. We have a bad habit of picking our head up and doing like I'm carrying 150%. And in a family business, when you start that dialogue with siblings, that is not good because you're going to get angrier quicker. Do you know why?

SPEAKER_02:

No, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

Because you're already emotionally attached to them. Right? So we're more comfortable with the people we love, which means we're we can be less than kind.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. We definitely can be a lot more comfortable. You know, there's not that fear that that person's going to leave most of the time. So we may push the envelope a lot further.

SPEAKER_00:

So this feels like a topic we probably should come back and spend a bit more time about.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, it might definitely be something that we'll come and swing back to. You know, I think we've as far as family dynamics go, I think there's been uh a solid overview, especially from family businesses and even outside of that, you know, transitions and moving between work and home and vice versa, and also managing those dynamics.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so you're going to be able to tell that a lot of work that we do from a psychotherapy perspective is about acknowledging our own emotions, recognizing that it's okay to feel how we feel, and actioning them in a way that's respectful and kind. You remember you have to be accountable for your feelings to have the power to change them. So those two things are intrinsically linked and it's not easy, but that's okay. We don't sell easy here. We do hard. It is easier to be in control than not be in control of how you respond and react. No one deserves to be yelled at. No one deserves for you to be mean to them. No one has the power to make you angry. No one has the power to upset you. You are already that way, and people do something you notice. Yeah. How would you wrap this up, Callan?

SPEAKER_02:

How would I wrap it up? I I honestly I think that was a good overall ending point. You know, it's this just looking back and knowing that things are going on inside and other people aren't causing that. It's communicating not only outside of ourselves, but within ourselves and recognizing that lots comes from inside, not outside. Okay, well, you know, I think that probably brings us to the end here.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So quick wrap-ups with family business. Make sure you're really good with job roles, job expectations, both places. Be kind when expressing and remember your role, speaker or listener. When you're a leader coming in from not a family business and you've had a particularly bad day, clean up your brain before you walk into your house, go for your walk, share what's happening. Or if your partner really doesn't have the time because they're transitioning to something else, you're going to acknowledge that your mood is going to be a little bit flat when you walk in so that you can give your partner a heads up and their job is not to read into your behavior. Yeah. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, very fair.

SPEAKER_00:

All right. Thank you for listening. We're hoping that you enjoyed podcast number seven. We are looking forward to your feedback and any other suggestions of podcasts you'd like to hear.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, looking forward to it. Thank you.

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Elizabeth Hepworth

Host
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Kaelen Hepworth

Host